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Author Topic: On Terrorism  (Read 1449 times)
vector001
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« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2016, 01:19:04 PM »

Quill, I like the way you brought Dude into the discussion.   

Personally, I see things getting worse before they get better.  We are a very open country, in many ways, and that can be used against us.  Shouldn't the function of Immigration be to bring in talented people to the U.S., and people who desperately want to live in a country where they have a chance to escape their own hellholes? 

That is one issue, and the politicians (who we pay) do not see it that way.



why do these "talented" people have to be physically here?!

if they are here to do something physical, then they displace a native who can do it.


Internet.

mean anything?

before the Internet, i was an overseas prototype coordinator for the largest prototype company in the world at that time, and i believe still.

we'd cut up giant CAD drawings into long strips, so we could FAX them to England, Germany, Japan, Taiwan, and Korea, to name a few.

i still see motorcycle parts that i designed.

all done remotely.


we don't need a location, to have a vocation.


the only reason to import and export human beings is SEX.

it makes me wonder what the true agenda is.


i'm all for fiefdoms and human trafficking, believe me, it would solve most problems we currently face, but my morality keeps me from initiating such a thing (looks like i won't have to, the way things are going. i look forward to gelding the little bastards and sending them off to war and forced labor, so i can have more castles and kids without OSHA breathing down my neck at my rail gun factory.)

respectfully submitted, despite my tone,

vec
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Bill S
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« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2016, 02:29:58 PM »

Actually, there are a number of Muslim leaders who denounce violence in the name of their religion.  Our MSM doesn't give them any coverage.  See the statement about fragmented, disorganized and afraid.

We could bring Muslim refugees in and scatter them across the land.  They would get assimilated in spite of themselves.  Instead we hear NIMBY and we end up concentrating them in one small area. Like a ghetto.  Where one group feeds on itself.

And as far as radicalized, so far, most seem to get it from the internet.  Maybe we should shut down free speech?  Or at least the internet?

And a lot of Skinheads consider themselves to be fine, upstanding, Christians.  And use the Bible to justify their actions.  And I've got Roy Moore using the Bible to bash gays, and he's come out and said he's a Christian.

I classify all those types as crazies.  If anyone tries to use religion to justify violence, then they completely missed the point of the religion in the first place.  Unless you follow Woten.
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Combat-Trout
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« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2016, 02:48:44 PM »

Actually, there are a number of Muslim leaders who denounce violence in the name of their religion.  Our MSM doesn't give them any coverage.  See the statement about fragmented, disorganized and afraid.

We could bring Muslim refugees in and scatter them across the land.  They would get assimilated in spite of themselves.  Instead we hear NIMBY and we end up concentrating them in one small area. Like a ghetto.  Where one group feeds on itself.

And as far as radicalized, so far, most seem to get it from the internet.  Maybe we should shut down free speech?  Or at least the internet?

And a lot of Skinheads consider themselves to be fine, upstanding, Christians.  And use the Bible to justify their actions.  And I've got Roy Moore using the Bible to bash gays, and he's come out and said he's a Christian.

I classify all those types as crazies.  If anyone tries to use religion to justify violence, then they completely missed the point of the religion in the first place.  Unless you follow Woten.

Hmm, let's look at the pattern, Islamic refugees, immigrants, what ever you want to call them don't assimilate well, first thing they demand is that's there religion gives them privileges, in the community, workplace, everyplace.

How many of the terrorist attacks have directly attributable to Islamists? Yet another one, oh, what a surprise. There is no governing body for the church of Islam. They hate each other at least as much as infidels, well, since they're so factions everyone is infidel status. What other religion in the world teaches that murder, rape, slavery, theft, lies, and hatred are acceptable means of propagating their beliefs? What other religion or culture actively teaches that destroying education, knowledge, and historical/cultural sites is god's work? What culture/religion says that rape victims should be put to death after all the elders also rape them to see if she might have enjoyed it?

I'm sorry, but the lie that Islam is a religion of peace, love, tolerance, and knowledge, is just that. A lie, continuing to support that lie is unconscionable in my belief system. If they want tolerance, then let them start living and teaching it.
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Christopher Nyerges
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« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2016, 03:07:11 PM »

So, many many points of view... but from the perspective that I started the discussion -- terrorism -- in TODAY's world, now, in this reality, you cannot talk about "terrorism" without bringing up the Islamic influence. 

Yes, as I think I stated, I studied Islam when I lived in Mexico -- and they were total pacifists -- and I have many friends who are good citizens..  But they are not driving the agenda, just like the average good German in the 40s was not driving the agenda. It only takes a few to steer a country, or a group, off the edge.   So it is misleading and counter-productive to bring up people like McVeigh, a marginal Christian maybe, to try to give "balance" to the topic.  I believe i am very objective when I state that Islam (and its fractionated factions) are the chief terrorists today... (Yes, there are those who like to say that the U.S. is the chief "terrorist" -- lots of opinions out there).

It is always good to attempt to see the world from the eyes of your "enemy," to know thier thinking, and strategy.  And remember: Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer... 

Sometimes, but not often, the more you explore, and think, your enemy can become your friend and maybe your ally.

At least from a personal survival viewpoint, it is wise always to be alert to changes in your neighborhoods and to be active in neighborhood groups, and even in local militias.  In the aftermath of a local disaster, you and your neighbors are the law. 

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Quill
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« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2016, 04:03:00 PM »

Is it the religion that drives the terrorist or the terrorist using religion to drive their ideals? I notice terrorist use some excuse for their violence. It was back and forth within Ireland not long ago. Catholics and Protestants tossed in with politics. The only real option is doing what the Allies did to Germany post WWII and it won't last.
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Christopher Nyerges
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« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2016, 04:22:03 PM »

Quill, very good point.  People can use all sorts of great excuses for killing others, raping children, and all manner of reprehensible behavior, and when they say it is "for the glory of God," you know that there is no reasoning....     Thus ( and there could have been a lot of intermediate comments before that "thus," and as Dude say, we don't use "thus" enough in our daily conversations):  never trust a politician who is not a STRONG supporter of the U.S. Second Amendment....
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oldgeekster1
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.


« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2016, 05:23:01 PM »


Saw this today on Rand Paul's Facebook page:

"Our best defense against domestic terrorists is law-abiding gun owners."

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Bill S
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« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2016, 06:12:29 PM »

OG1, I definitely agree with that statement.  That's who took out the guy in Minn, a retired police officer, who teaches and is still a part time officer.  Everybody else just screamed and ran.

I realize that radical Islamic are the 600 pound gorilla sitting in the corner that no politically correct person wants to mention, I just don't want lump 1.7 billion people into either terrorists or supporters of terror.  'Cause most aren't.  They just don't have a platform to reach anybody except locals.

And even if they do condemn it, no one reports it.

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Fuer Grissa Ost Drauka
Lynch Mob
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Redneck Iconoclast


« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2016, 11:27:52 PM »

I think the first two pages of the Quran dispel any notion that islam is a religion of peace. Read the whole thing, it's a short read, and any one would be convinced that it most certainly is not a religion of peace.
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Dude McLean
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« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2016, 11:41:00 PM »



 THUS  we have what we have in our country and elsewhere 

 skin em alive or dead or both..
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Petzlglyph
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« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2016, 12:54:20 AM »

Another aspect that most are not aware of is the primarily Shi'ite belief, involving the return of the 12th Imam ( the muslim equivalent of a savior ).  In a nutshell.  According to their belief He will only return in a time of great strife for the muslims.  The ayatollah khomeini of Iran and his following believe it is their duty to facilitate this "great strife" as quickly as possible to hasten the return of the 12th Imam.  The ayatollah has made this public, it is not secret information.  There being no requirement in their teachings that this "great strife" be the result of others  actions and their fervent desire to bring the 12th Imam back ( who will banish all other religions ).  They feel it is their religious dictate to develop nukes to lob at Israel and the USA, (no provocation necessary) which will result in the "great strife" that will bring the return of the 12th Imam.  Short of nukes any other method is and will also be used to reach the same goal.
Someone mentioned the 10% figure for radicalized muslims, and many debate that that is the lowest most conservative estimate, some say closer to 40%.  So there are now 1.6 billion muslims worldwide 10% = 160 million minimum, radical muslims who have us in their sights
In our rational thinking we mistakenly think they want something tangible: land, jobs  , money, new cars, houses, thier own state, to COEXIST Really Huh?
What they want does not fit into our rational thinking, what they want is us and all Infidels  they will stop at nothing less, it is their divine duty and destiny.  They Want to die for it.
Correct, this belief is not held by all Muslims, there are other factions that do not adhere to every word (why they kill each other).  But most hold to the return of the 12th Imam.
There is also a slick loophole in their teachings that allows them to temporarily partake in the wicked ways of the infidels to gain their trust and infiltrate their ranks to further the cause. Basically the ends justify any means necessary.  Interesting little side note, this same loophole exists in Black Liberation Theology as taught by the famous reverend Jeremiah Wright.
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deerstalker
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« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2016, 06:26:56 AM »


Another aspect that most are not aware of is the primarily Shi'ite belief, involving the return of the 12th Imam ( the muslim equivalent of a savior ). 


Thanks Petzlglyph, I've never tried to unravel this particular ball of twine, but it's on my radar now

Seems it's complicated.............. Smiley

This guy was one claimant they reckon, but of course not everyone agrees, apparently there's been quite a few Huh? Undecided

"Muḥammad ibn al-Ḥasan al-Mahdī

Muhammad ibn Hasan ibn Ali (29 July AD 869/15 Shabān 255 AH ?), more commonly called Muhammad al-Mahdi, is the twelfth imam of Twelver Shia Islam. He is believed by Twelver Shīa Muslims to be the Mahdī, an ultimate savior of humankind and the final Imām of the Twelve Imams. Twelver Shīa believe that al-Mahdī was born in 869 and did not die but rather was hidden by God (this is referred to as the Occultation) and will later emerge with Isa (Jesus) in order to fulfill their mission of bringing peace and justice to the world. He assumed the Imamate at 5 years of age. Some Shiīte schools do not consider ibn-al-Hasan to be the Mahdī, although the mainstream sect Twelvers do."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mahdi_claimants

I think there's a pretty broad range of interpretations, as with most religious matters - probably why they fight one another when we aren't available.

 


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Curmudgeon
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« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2016, 08:26:19 AM »

Heard a missionary's wife talking about the time they were working in China in a region where there were a lot of moslems.  The moslem men were disgusting.  Since she was an "infidel" she was constantly being bombarded with crude (sometimes threatening) remarks and outright sexual advances.  She, being a infidel, was not considered to be a "person" and therefore the men could have sex with her and it didn't count as adultery or even rape.  She was never actually raped by them but the threat was there constantly.  She was a teacher in the Chinese schools.  Moslems do not look at the rest of "us" as we do.  If you aren't moslem you are not on the same level as they are.  The greater the number of moslems the worse it gets.  I challenge anyone to find a country controlled by moslems that is "peaceful."  The irony is the liberals falling down all over themselves catering to these woman haters who also hate everyone else who is different than they are.
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Bill S
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« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2016, 09:16:44 AM »

Oh no, they fight each other even when we are available.  They have to purify their religion, you see.  We are infidels and just a talking animal, more or less.  If you belong to another sect of Muslims, you are being willfully wrong and corrupting the teaching of Mohammad.

And yes, the numbers of supporters is pretty high, but it doesn't include the vast majority of Muslims.  During the American Revolution, only about 25% of the population supported revolution, 15% supported the king and 60% just tried to keep their heads down until it was over.  Of course, those 60% were happy to reap the benefits afterwards.  I'm not real sure that most Muslims will be happy to live under Sharia laws.  Most countries that have tried either had another revolution or relaxed their laws as time went by.  Or, most wrote civil laws that were a lot easier to enforce because they are not subject to interpretation.
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Quill
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« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2016, 11:12:58 AM »

I think the first jihaddy thingy was in Afghanistan during WWI. The Germans worked to convince them to make a holy war on the British. Some of the current trouble in the Middle East is left over from WWI. There was a plan by the tribes to split the land when the rebelled against the Ottomans. T. E. Lawrence was involved. Meanwhile a back door meeting by Britain and France set up a subdivision where there was European control. When Baghdad was made the seat of government they did not pay attention to tribal differences with the Shiites, Sunni or the Kurds. Many Muslims are nominal like ones who claim to be Christian but really don't follow strictly. This is even true with the Amish. From a Mennonite that lives with them, it's all according to the local bishop as to how strict they are. Try to condemn all Muslims as the same will bring even more problems. There were attempts in the past to ban all Protestants and all Catholics not to mention the Jews. Where I grew up they were laws in the 19th century that Catholics had to be buried at a crossroad and a lot of their old cemeteries are at old crossroads. There was a law to that they could only shop in town one day a week. There was a constant belief in the Midwest that the Jews were the cause of all woes. That is why Henry Ford is accused of being anti Semitic. It's a big danger to go to radical and make things worse by as Dude says you got to watch your 6. Most of us have neighbors that when push comes to shove they would sell us out for a pack of Ramen noodles.
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